This article is from:jez (@izebel_eth)
Compiled by | Odaily Planet Daily (@OdailyChina); Translator | Azuma (@azuma_eth)
Editor's Note: Based on market rumors and the odds on Polymarket, it seems to be no secret that Lighter will have its TGE on December 29th. At this critical moment just before the token launch, Lighter's founder and CEO Vladimir Novakovski participated in a Twitter Space interview hosted by jez (@izebel_eth).
During the conversation, Vladimir addressed community concerns one by one, including the token launch date, points distribution, Sybil screening, product updates, future direction, and community communication.
Below are the highlights of Vladimir's interview, compiled and translated by Odaily Planet Daily.
Opening
- Host (jec): This is my first time hosting a Twitter Spaces. So please bear with me if there are any unexpected issues. Today I'm very happy to have invited Vladimir Novakovski, the founder and CEO of Lighter. I will ask him some questions that come from myself, Discord, Twitter, and other community group chats. Before we start, Vladimir, is there anything you'd like to say first?
Vladimir: No, let's just start the questions.
Q1: Getting Straight to the Token Launch Time
- Host: The first question is simple, when will the token be launched?
Vladimir: You know, we previously said 'this holiday season will be hot,' so I think the community can interpret this phrase in different ways.
Q2: Lighter's Future Direction
- Host: Okay, let's continue the discussion starting from the roadmap. Where do you plan to take Lighter in the coming months and years? By the way, let's talk about this first, does the so-called 'Special ZK Circuit for Brother Sun' really exist?
Vladimir: Haha, there was some FUD about this online before, but that was basically just a joke. We released the ZK circuit code this week, and quite a few people have already gone to check this code. However, it should be noted that the points system does not go through these circuits. So for those who earned a lot of points and obtained LLP shares before, that part is not verifiable.
In the future, if the native token can be used for staking, obtaining LLP shares, or unlocking other product permissions, that can be verified, but the current points system itself is not verified by the circuit, so the claim of 'leaving a backdoor in the circuit for whales' is essentially just a joke.
- Host: Let me put it this way, every time I hear the word 'circuit,' my brain gets a bit confused. Suppose I know nothing about ZK and am too lazy to really understand it. How would you explain to me the practical results that using ZK circuits can bring to Lighter?
Vladimir: Basically, it means that everything done on Lighter is verifiable and will be published to the Ethereum network.
From a practical perspective, if you are a trading user, you don't have to worry about my orders being filled unfairly in a different order compared to another trader, or about positions being liquidated at the wrong price. All of this can be guaranteed by the circuit.
As Lighter's business scope expands, everything will still be verifiable. This also means the circuit can coexist in parallel with other things happening on Ethereum and the EVM sidechain we are developing. We can talk more about this.
- Host: Give a more specific example.
Vladimir: For example, you can use any type of asset as collateral. You can use ETH as a collateral asset, or you can use assets on Aave, Morpho as collateral assets on Lighter.
- Host: So, I can integrate existing Ethereum L1 DeFi protocols? Is this the integration method you envision? Are you more inclined to integrate with the existing L1 ecosystem or build a completely independent L2 ecosystem?
Vladimir: The core purpose of the L2 is to build an ultra-high-performance exchange on top of Ethereum. We have already achieved this. Currently, Lighter L2 has the highest TPS on Ethereum and is the fourth largest L2 by TVL.
The significance of the L2 is to support high-performance applications, such as perpetual contract trading and other trading scenarios that require extremely high performance. But many DeFi applications don't actually need such high performance; they already run well on Ethereum. So we won't reinvent the wheel but will choose to combine with the existing DeFi ecosystem. At the same time, new high-performance applications will be born on the L2, introducing some new asset classes that don't even exist yet (like RWA, options, etc.).
It's certain that there is already a very large DeFi ecosystem on Ethereum, and combining with it represents a huge opportunity space.
Q3: Opportunities and Risks of Unified Margin
- Host: You launched spot trading a month ago, and you also mentioned that spot positions can be used as collateral. This naturally leads to the next question: How do you view the Universal Cross-Margin model? How is this considered in terms of design and risk control?
Vladimir: We will proceed step by step. This is something that must be done, but it must be done under strictly controlled risk conditions. Even within a stablecoin collateral system, issues like liquidation mechanisms, ADL (Automatic Deleveraging), etc., need to be fully considered. As you've seen, discussions about ADL have been very active in recent weeks.
We will start by supporting multiple stablecoins as collateral assets, such as USDC (we are working with Circle to promote the landing of native USDC on Lighter). Afterwards, we can support more stablecoins and freely switch between them as collateral. After this step is completed, we will gradually add mainstream assets like ETH, BTC, and even introduce the native token as collateral, but different assets will correspond to different risk models — assets with higher risk may require higher liquidation fees. These models need time to refine, but this is one of our key focuses for next year.
Q4: Lighter's Listing Strategy
- Host: In the risk model, the trading asset is as important as the collateral asset. What is your expansion strategy for listing new assets?
Vladimir: This is a very interesting direction. The native token will play an important role here, helping to achieve a more permissionless listing experience. We are currently communicating with many teams, not only for perpetual contracts but also for spot assets, such as the tokenized stocks that Robinhood is working on.
In the long run, if a good incentive alignment mechanism can be formed in the ecosystem, users holding a certain amount of the native token will be able to have a greater influence on listing choices and the ecological direction.
- Host: This leads to another question. How do you view tokenized stocks, as well as RWA assets like Pokémon cards, precious metals, etc.? Given the current regulatory environment, what is the adoption path?
Vladimir: I think this is a huge opportunity for the next few years. We have finally reached a stage where DeFi and TradFi don't just coexist but can truly combine.
We have already communicated with Robinhood and have also discussed these issues with traditional exchanges and large hedge funds. At the same time, we have participated in some regulatory discussions in Washington... I think the first step might be to support the tokenized stocks that Robinhood is already doing, but there will definitely be more developments later.
Q5: Mobile Strategy
- Host: Changing to a topic I personally care a lot about: How do you view the mobile side?
Vladimir: I've actually mentioned this before. We have invested a lot of time in the mobile side and are indeed developing an App, and it's progressing quite well. Some early traders in the community have already tested it. We will also make related announcements in the coming weeks, so you can stay tuned.
Of course, we also very much welcome other developers to build applications. But for certain types of traders, they prefer the same team to develop the core protocol, desktop, and mobile App simultaneously. So this is a direction we are focusing on investing in, and we hope it will be used by many traders.
- Host: When mentioning mobile, I usually divide it into two categories. One is for users already in the crypto world, where mobile can provide more convenience; the other is for new users outside the circle, where mobile can be used to lower the barrier. Which direction will your mobile side focus on?
Vladimir: Yes, our mobile side will have two modes. One is a more professional mode, suitable for users who are already actively trading on the desktop but need to operate when they are out. The other is a lighter mode,面向 those who are just starting out.
- Host: Will it include its own deposit and withdrawal processes? Or will users still need to go through paths like Arbitrum?
Vladimir: We are still finalizing these details, but the goal is definitely to achieve a very smooth deposit experience. We are communicating with some teams working in this area to make the process very simple. Of course, there are still some decisions to be made, but this is indeed our goal.
Robinhood does this very well — the time from when you first hear about the App to completing your first trade should be very short. This is also one of our very clear goals.
Q6: Cooperation with Robinhood
- Host: You have mentioned Robinhood many times. What have you gained from your friendship with Vlad Tenev (founder of Robinhood)? Will there be synergy between Lighter and Robinhood in the future?
Vladimir: Of course. We have previously mentioned tokenized stocks, which is one direction we have already started exploring together. Beyond that, you can look at what they are doing — they have centralized products, but they are also trying a lot at the wallet level, exploring how to improve the overall experience. Considering they are also building an L2 in the Ethereum ecosystem, you can imagine many interesting combination methods in the future.
Once it materializes into specific products, we will have more to share. From a learning perspective, one thing I think has been long underestimated in the crypto industry is truly being user-centric and valuing user experience; another point is not being afraid to try new business models.
- Host: Can you elaborate a bit more?
Vladimir: Take Robinhood as an example. In the early days, the zero-commission model itself was a very crazy idea. Even within the team and among early users, people weren't sure if it would work.
When we tried a similar model on Lighter, it was the same. You have to constantly experiment in different strategic spaces, rather than copying the same fee structure just because 'that's what everyone else is doing.' That might not be the optimal solution. This doesn't mean every new idea will succeed, but the path of innovation itself is very diverse.
For us, the core is to provide the best experience for retail users, and this will naturally attract trading firms and market makers, thereby realizing monetization. This logic itself is very powerful. My experience at Citadel also taught me this. When Citadel expanded from hedge funds to the securities business back then, it was also considered a crazy idea — wasn't that what investment banks did? Is this the securities business? But now, many large hedge funds have their own securities business departments.
Q7: Fees and Revenue Model
- Host: Many people are curious about your fee structure, revenue model, and sustainability. Many are asking what will happen when you restart charging fees? So from a more macro perspective, how do you view your business model? Where does your real revenue come from?
Vladimir: Actually, fees have been enabled since October. Overall, we introduced a premium tier and are also considering more tiers, mainly to serve higher-frequency traders. We have done a lot of optimization on TPS and can now support higher-level trading needs.
Generally speaking, in the first two months after enabling fees (it's almost three months now), the fee revenue actually exceeded our expectations. One very interesting thing is, we were originally worried whether some trading institutions trading on Lighter would reduce their trading volume after fees were enabled, but the fact is we haven't seen this situation at all. Instead, the feedback we got from them was that they actually prefer a multi-tiered fee structure based on latency conditions, because it makes it easier for them to model and design different trading strategies.
So far, we are satisfied with the performance of the fees. As new products are launched, we will continue to try different fee models. So far, the idea of 'free for retail, better for the overall ecosystem' has some good data to support it.
Q8: Points Program and Sybil Screening
- Host: GLC Research pressed a question. They are concerned whether user and market maker participation can be sustained once the points subsidies end?
Vladimir: Ultimately, the design goal of the points system and future token economics is incentive alignment. You can imagine if you were an early trader on Robinhood and also held its stock; or if you traded on the NYSE and could also hold shares of Citadel Securities or Jane Street — this is exactly what the token structure can achieve, and it's one of the truly exciting things about this field.
Indeed, there are some people who 'aren't really traders' and are just wash trading. We have already reduced points for many of these accounts this week. But at the same time, it must be acknowledged that there is still a huge amount of real trading demand in this market, and this demand currently mainly stays on CEXs.
In the future, as CeFi and DeFi further integrate, the market opportunity is still enormous. If we can create a truly powerful product in this field, trading activity will naturally pour in. From our perspective, the current scale on Lighter is only a small part of the overall market opportunity. So we will continue to focus on product building and keep communicating with users. Incentive alignment is a good thing, not a bad thing.
- Host: The second season points program has ended. You just mentioned reducing points for Sybil addresses. Many people are concerned about your identification methods — what kind of behavior will be judged? Are there misjudgments? Is there an appeal mechanism?
Vladimir: Yes, we do have an appeal mechanism, but so far, the number of appeals is less than we expected. If users feel the algorithm is unfair to them, they are welcome to fill out the appeal form in Discord. We will not disclose the specific algorithm details because we don't want people to 'optimize behavior' specifically against it.
Overall, this is a task involving a lot of data science, including cluster analysis, behavior pattern recognition, etc. Our quant team (whose daily work is liquidity and market maker对接) also spent several weeks participating in this. In addition, we have communicated with some protocols that have done similar work, as well as individual-level 'Sybil hunters.' We are confident in the final results, but if there are indeed misjudgments, please do appeal.
Q9: Token Economic Model and Value Capture
- Host: These points will be converted into tokens in the future. Can you share the token economic structure? Roughly what percentage of the total supply will the points program account for?
Vladimir: We will release more detailed announcements on this soon. Overall, 50% of the tokens will be allocated to the community, with a significant portion allocated to the first and second season points programs. The specific proportion will be announced soon. From the current market feedback, everyone's expectations are relatively consistent with the actual design.
- Host: What about some recent large on-chain transfers (like those to Coinbase), can you explain them?
Vladimir: Those transfers are unrelated to the airdrop; they are mainly custody arrangements for the investor and team portions. We are working with two custody institutions, so the on-chain actions you see are unrelated to the airdrop.
- Host: Some people are worried about VC financing issues and whether the value structure of 'equity vs. token' is aligned. Can you respond to that?
Vladimir: Of course. Our stance is very clear — value will settle on the token in the end, and all investors participated under this premise.
We adhere to a principle: the token is the core alignment mechanism for all stakeholders — early users, team, and investors are all in the same boat. There will not be a dual-track structure where 'the token has one value logic and equity has another.' Everything will revolve around the token. Subsequent details will be gradually announced.
- Host: How exactly will the token capture value?
Vladimir: We will explain in detail later, but it is certain that — revenue, new products, and ecological expansion will all revolve around the token. As the Lighter ecosystem and trading categories expand, value will naturally flow back to token holders.
If you draw an analogy to traditional finance, think about everyone involved in TradFi being able to hold shares of brokerages, market makers, data companies — and now, this is being realized on-chain. This is the 'big picture' of the token in my eyes.
- Host: Will revenue data be published in the future? Will it be programmatically linked to the token?
Vladimir: Yes, we will publish revenue data. As for how to use this revenue and whether it will be bound to the token mechanism, it will become clearer as products land. The core goal is always to let value settle on the token and promote ecological growth, thereby enhancing the rights and interests of token holders.
Q10: Give More Support to the Chinese Community!
- Host: I have one more question from Discord, mainly aimed at Chinese users and other non-English, more global communities. What are your plans for local language support?
Vladimir: We currently support about 10 languages. Is your question referring to, for example, support for community groups like WeChat groups?
- Host: Yes, regional community management.
Vladimir: Understood. I think this is a very reasonable question. We are indeed expanding the team and will be more localized.
We already have several members in Asia now and are building a more complete regional structure. We will definitely continue to hire relevant personnel. So in this regard, we have clear plans.
